Author Topic: New Area!  (Read 12449 times)

sapphire

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New Area!
« on: November 01, 2013, 01:18:14 PM »
Hi Folks

This area is specifically for posts pertaining to concerns or compliments about the service you are getting.

If you would like to post something but don't want to be identified as it coming from you, PM it to myself or Ken and we will post it for you.

Ken Stringer

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 01:42:43 PM »
Thanks Sapph

It is time services were named for good or ill deeds, we are seeing an increasing number of incidents of enforced reductions etc while other services are still delivering high quality.  Services are generally getting a bad press which is unfair on the good ones.  People also need to know where they might get a bad experience.  Who knows, naming them may change their practice?

sapphire

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2013, 02:54:18 PM »
I think you're quite right Ken.

As services are not named an shamed, the good services get unfairly lumped in with the bad ones.

They have that website now where you can see what reviews your GP or Surgeon has, we should start something like that for DSP's?

Ken Stringer

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2013, 03:16:29 PM »
Would love to.  John Howard at RUF mentioned doing something similar a while ago

sapphire

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2013, 03:46:26 PM »
I'm going to have a think about how would be best to do it, and then I'll run it past you to see what you think.

Ken Stringer

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 04:50:37 PM »
That's wonderful, thanks

OP8S

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 06:24:49 PM »
About time these charitable organisations were named & shamed. As many people are finding they're not very charitable or helpful at all for some. I'll not say anything about my provider at the moment, I actually think the service I recieve is a lot better than most, now that I'm in the hands of the NHS in a shared care set-up. It certainly has scope for improvement all the same & I've been asked to take part in suggestions as how it can be improved ( token user ? ) something that my experiences with previous " charitable " DSP's never happened. I suggested a user's group be set up & key nipped it in the bud telling me nobody would be interested & that they didn't a room available for such meetings. Knowing that they had several rooms precisely to be used to have meetings in I gave up at the first hurdle.
I'm liking the NHS though, I just hope they retain the service.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

Ken Stringer

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2013, 12:17:10 AM »
Come on OP no harm in telling who is being fair with you!

sapphire

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2013, 02:53:15 PM »
Actually OP your service has got to be about the best I have heard of on here. I would be happy to be treated by them, at least they seem to have both brain cells pointing in the right direction!!

Rbrtgrgrmcgrgr

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 08:10:47 PM »
I believe if you have a good worker in a shit service you will have a +ve experience.  If you have a bad worker in  good service you will have a -ve one.  They haven't designed a system yet that removes that variable.  This is why advocacy and SU involvement should be a statutory requirement.   It is still a posh word for "volunteer scheme" in many (most?) areas.Commissioners need to hear from and work with genuinely independent service user advocates, not a few tame "clients" wheeled out by services at a local conference for a patronizing presentation.   But...to make a criticism stick it helps to deliver it as a shit sandwich.  Don't forget the bread! ;0)

sapphire

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 12:48:08 PM »
I'm not 100% sure that I am in favour of Service User groups.

Can't say for other places, but the current SU group at my place is made up of ex service users that are now abstinent, or people that have just finished a detox, or people that are planning detox. There is no contingent of maintenance patients.

I did try to change this by going to a few of the groups meetings, but I was made to feel that I was not in "real" recovery, and that maintenance was "bad", so as it was all of them versus just 1 of me, I got sick of banging my head against the wall.

When I saw the service manager next I did try to explain to her the iniquity of the group, but she didn't do anything about my suggestions.

simon

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 02:54:28 PM »
I think it very much depends on the service user, I've seen a number who managed to get off Methadone and believe abstinance is the only way, they do tend to be very enthusiastic and try and drag people on that route, sometimes far too early. I do recall one such chap being very vocal with me and quite rude, denied that the World health organisation, the Dept of Health and NICE were right and I was a rather naughty  word.
I also recall one chap who said that if he could do it then anyone can, doesn't ever mention it took him ten years!

sapphire

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 03:37:01 PM »
I also recall one chap who said that if he could do it then anyone can, doesn't ever mention it took him ten years!

LOL, it's as bad as an ex-smoker!!

Odysseus

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 07:16:01 PM »
Sapphire and Simon, I was somewhat cringing while reading your comments as it reminded so much of me and the process I went through nearly 20 years, in a space of months I went from someone who was taking enough chemicals to drop an elephant to something akin to a prohibitionist, thankfully it didn't last to long but the process some people go through can actually facilitate it.

After a self-detox I was funded to go to a private 12 step treatment centre, though I have to say the quality of treatment was appalling,  [it cost nearly 6,000 at the time] I was forced to attend fellowship meeting and the like.  The fellowships stuff did actually  help quite a bit, the treatment was actually abusive.

Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that you can see this occurring in individuals who go down that road.  It is suggested to get as many meeting as possible, if your not working such why not get two meetings in.  Early on in recovery that can indeed be helpful as time spent getting to, attending, and returning from meeting is time spent no using, then suddenly, another day has passed in which the person hasn't used.

So a person's psyche is flooded with new friends, new activities, etc. everything revolves around recovery.  Again in the early day's of recovery this may be helpful, but all these new concepts become a new way of living, life as an active addict is now seen as faulty living, "working the programme" is healthy living, this can become active addiction equals all that is bad, recovery equals all that is good and all things associated with active addiction are seen as damaging and to be avoided at all costs.

This results in a person who is very fragile after years of use. Everything around them is recovery originated and in a way it can become as obsessive as the addiction.  Now even if this is the case, it is much healthier that active drug use, but it is all dependent on the first premise, that the subject must be abstinent, if that is not there, then everything must crumble.  Group members are told constantly of those who thought they could do it alone, but they always either relapse, end up jailed, or die.  The group will always have members who lived this experience.

Hence, whereas say the NA programme does not say it is for everyone, it is implied that if you "work it" it will work.  Hence, the person or members of the group cannot "successfully" take any substance without it ending back in the mess they started, they view it as applying to all.  An attack or even a perceived attack on the programme becomes an attack on the subjects recovery.  The subjects ego, all the new identifications they made and the new conceptions they have introjected, are seen as being under threat and the person responds as they did with you Simon.  After all they feel as if they are protecting this new way of life, which to be fair they have worked  very hard to get.



I used to use this one a bit but if you look at the term Recovery, you get Recovery-Re-Cover-To cover over again.  I spent a couple years working in a drug free non-residential and you see the same process happening again and again.  I don't have a lot of time for him, but Staunton Peel does a have decent overview of the "initiation" to 12 step programmes in some of his books. 

If your only source of information is telling you that you have a disease, that there is only one successful way of treating it for you as an individual; and this is constantly re-enforced by experience of fellow group members.  If you leave the programme and find a way of dealing with your addiction that works for you, well you are not going to return to the group, whereas if you relapse and make it back, well that concept is re-enforced yet again.  All the people you spend time with agree, because you try to spend as much time as possible with other members.

With saying all of that I see those programmes help a lot of people, but there needs to be room for those who are not helped by those programme.  That whole entrenched way of thinking is natural enough for someone in early recovery; I would hope that those with a tad more experience gradually learn to  tolerate the fact that there are other ways recovering.  Sadly, those with those entrenched conceptions are attracted to working in this area; that is fine if they work with those who are attracted to that ideal of recovery.  Forcing upon those who are not suited to it, or denying access to other forms of treatment.

Anyway, I hope that makes a bit of sense.

Jackwhan

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Re: New Area!
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2013, 11:42:03 AM »
Hi All

I must admit that my local CRI are currently being very fair and supportive. Following an initial abstinence vs maintenance argument with the service doctor, the realization that (despite being on subutex maintenance) I am a productive and worthwhile person (as are most of us) has led to a decent relationship with both key and doctor.

My request to reduce from 14mg to 8mg subutex then stop until the time comes when/if I feel ready has been granted.

We also have a monthly Service User meeting which I try to attend if work permits. Although now abstinent, the individual who facilitates the group is very much of the view that what works for one will not necessarily work for another. His catchphrase goes something like - "it is your recovery mate, so f***k what anyone else says" Any complaints go straight from the SU rep to management and most, from what I have heard, get resolved. My feeling is that CRI (at least where I live) have come to realise that enforced reductions simply do not work.

There are numerous horror stories relating to CRI-related practices and I know that many are true. Just thought I'd go totally against the grain and describe my personal experience which, on the whole, has been a somewhat positive one.

With regard to any 'charitable' drug treatment organisation, it is always worth attending key worker sessions and the dreaded 'Doctor's Review' armed with evidence and knowledge of clinical guidelines. Drug treatment personnel live in fear of service user's who have knowledge and can think for themselves - it stands in contrast to what they expect of us.

Best wishes

Jack