Author Topic: Script tied in to group work  (Read 7576 times)

Dizmayed

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Script tied in to group work
« on: April 01, 2014, 10:49:27 AM »
Hi, I'm new here. The service I attend are introducing group work across the board i've heard. If I want my script, I'm gonna have to attend a group because they'll be given out after attendance.
I've been offered groups, ramp etc by my worker and don't want to go. He's ok about it, but says the group work may change that option.
My question is: Can they do that, legally?

I don't want to be in a group... I just want my script without strings.

Any advice appreciated.

Diz

OP8S

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2014, 12:34:28 PM »
Have you ever had to attend anything like this before ? I know I would hate that kind of thing. There must be some way of getting out of it, especially if it's going to have a negative effect.
Would they rather have you safely on a script & not attending group session's, or would your DSP prefer that you weren't in treatment at all.

I don't think they should be able to deny you treatment just because you don't / can't attend.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2014, 01:33:30 PM »
Have they actually told you face to face that you must attend a group or they will remove your script?

Most DSP's are encouraging service users to attend groups these days,  as they push people more towards abstinence based recovery.

If they tell you face to face that they are going to remove your script if you don't attend groups, that is certainly something that the Alliance would challenge.

However, most services, if a service user objects very strongly to attending groups, will respect that wish.

Dizmayed

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2014, 02:35:04 PM »
Hi again,
Thanks for both your replies. The details haven't been given yet, but that's the feeling going round. I heard they only get money if they jib people from treatment, which i think is wrong. As for recovery? I think I'm in it now. I have a 30ml script and use on top once a week with my own money etc.. I don't graft now and have no kids to worry about... why isn't this recovery? It seems I need to group hug before I am in their view...

I'll keep you posted about developments and thanks again for help...

Diz

sapphire

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2014, 03:22:45 PM »
The problem is going to be that these days, to remain on a maintenance script, you need to be seen to be 'playing the game' and that MMT is working.

For drug services and commissioners, using on top means that it's not working, so however they do it, patients need to not give drug screens that show positive for illicit drugs/meds.

In your situation, I would just wait until they actually say to you personally that you have to attend a group or they'll stop your script.

I would imagine that they won't actually say that to you, and that if you object to the groups that strongly, they won't make you do them.

It's a shame that we have to jump through these hoops, but in this age of abstentionists, harm reduction is just not 'cool' any more, so doesn't get the big bucks funding that 'recovery' does.

OP8S

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2014, 05:26:52 PM »
Just tell them that you've had a virtual " group-hug " & then we all high-fived each other because we're so damn good ! ::)

I would avoid giving positive u/s to them as that is something that they can really get stuck in about. I'm sure you're savvy enough to know that anyway.

I'm sure that there are loads of excuses if you put your mind to it...
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2014, 02:20:10 PM »
That's it OP. To remain on a maintenance script these days, you have to show that it's working (and they define the terms of working!). Using on top means that it does not fit their definition of working.

Dizmayed

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2014, 05:56:38 PM »
Hi again.. I guess my point is, I actually enjoy using on a rec basis, just as others like a bottle of wine at weekends or a spliff. I'm harming nobody but myself.... if my script was stopped or forcibly reduced I'd still like using, but would end up using more as I was before a script.... harm reduction is a dirty word these days but for me, it's the only way.... if others want abstinence then great. I don't.  I take your points though so I'll have to blag samples and conform to the junkie liar sterotype... how sad eh?

Thanks again and keep up the good work..

Diz

sapphire

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2014, 06:26:03 PM »
It is very sad that Harm Reduction is seen either as a dirty word or as a complete non entity these days.

We are going back to the bad old days of time limited treatment and positive UA's meaning you get booted out of treatment.

The figures of new cases of Hep C in IV drug users are already increasing, and people are already dying as a result of having their scripts stopped.

This government is complete BS, they couldn't care if we all dropped like flies. Let's hope come next year that enough people have had enough of them.

People that don't vote and hate this government, register to vote!!!

Dizmayed

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2014, 07:32:33 PM »
Agree.. we seem obsessed with the treatments in the USA which is a complete paradox, being the biggest consumers of drugs but with the most draconian systems to treat drug use. It seems if you're rich using charlie's you're just having a good time.... hypocrisy rules in the UK.  The evidence for abstinence is based on ideology and not science, although as I said it's a choice and shouldn't be the option for having treatment..

Jackwhan

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 10:04:33 AM »
Hi

Agreed, the US have ultra-draconian policies relating to illicit drug possession and supply. However, looking into how some US states are implementing the 'recovery agenda' reveals that effort is being made to lessen the stigma attached to 'substitute' medications and medication-assisted recovery. Moreover, people in the US who are stable on a script do not have to jump through hoops in order to drive and they are covered by anti-discrimination legislation with regard to employment; employers are required by US law to make reasonable workplace adjustments, for example allowing people time-off to attend recovery related groups and meetings.

This contrasts with the current recovery agenda in the UK. Although international classification systems define 'dependence syndrome' (addiction) as a disability, people with or in recovery from drug problems are not covered by the provisions of the Equality Act 2010; hence, they are not protected from discrimination of the basis of their dependence. This includes people who are long-term stable on a medication or even people in abstinence-based who disclose their prior drug using status.

The UK government is doing its utmost to stigmatise methadone and those in medication-assisted recovery even further than is already the case. As if we are not already the most alienated and despised group in UK society!!

I wish you luck
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 10:59:46 AM by Jackwhan »

sapphire

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 12:23:20 PM »
I agree with some of what Jack is saying, and that the US has a far better (IMO) treatment system than we do.

They can get optimal doses easily, they can get up to a months worth of meds at a time, they don't have to jump through the hoops that we do, and they have some really good advocacy organisations.

They have these really good advocacy orgs because they get a lot of funding, even some from methadone pharmaceutical companies.

However, since the ACA (ObamaCare) has started being implemented, things are changing. Because their government (through ObamaCare) are going to be paying for a lot of peoples' treatment, they feel they have a say in how that money is going to be spent.

So fat this has manifested itself in clinics closing as they have lost funding due to all the funding going to ObamaCare, in some states they have put time limits on treatment, so people can only stay on a script for 2 years. They are trying to knock that down to six months!

What it all boils down to is that having the government pay for your treatment makes them feel entitled to have a say in how that money is spent, and depending on whether you have a government that understands how maintenance helps the addict and the wider community, depends what happens with peoples' treatment.

One good thing they do have is that people on MAR are covered by the ADA (Americas' with Disabilities Act) so that they cannot be stigmatised against just for being on a script.

I really do hope that everyone votes in the next election. A lot of people say "it doesn't matter, they're all the same". Well they're not all the same, a continued Conservative government will mean continued efforts to get people off methadone, by hook or by crook.

So, if you're not registered to vote get registered. You can actually do postal voting pretty easily, so you don't even have to go to the polling booth!

OP8S

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 02:33:24 PM »
America has many states, I would imagine it depends on where you are when it comes to different model's of treatment.

The system does sound better on the whole, especially the anti-discrimination laws which I would imagine are Federal meaning they apply to the whole country.

Ever since the British system was abolished it seem's that we've gone from the best treatment provision to one of the worst. Countries in Europe like the Netherlands, Germany, Portugal the Swiss all have far more progressive policies & attitudes towards opiate user's. Even the USA has anti-discriminatory laws protecting those in treatment.

The Conservatives just see opiate dependant's as a way of lining the pockets of these privately run charities with their Payment by Result's scheme.

The whole system need's a complete overhaul & put back in the hands of the NHS. That's where I would like my income tax to go into the NHS, not building missiles, causing trouble in other parts of the world because the USA is running out of oil.

If you don't vote or at least spoil your paper & the Tories get in again things are going to get much worse for anybody involved in treatment.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2014, 04:21:40 PM »
I definitely agree that a lot of these 'charity' DSP's are completely ruining drug treatment.

stumps

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Re: Script tied in to group work
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2014, 10:57:54 PM »
whisper it quietly but we have clients using and when you suggest a raise of script to a higher level a lot of our clients look at me as though I have said something weird. People have become so used to talking bollocks that when you have an honest conversation they seem quite shocked.

 It is the rage at the moment for mutual aid ,ie 12 step, to be seen as treatment. We are fighting hard to keep a range of options but people locally see 40 as a limit. Talking about therapeutic dose and clients look confused.

It is not suitable to say attend group or don't have a script so can I ask what this service provider is because I have a suspicion.If you feel unable to say on here then that's fine but it is not treatment. Methadone is a medication. We don't send astmhatics to group before they can have a pump.