Author Topic: The rise of legal highs  (Read 8162 times)

simon

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2014, 02:33:08 PM »
Yes but I wonder what might have happened if they'd just left well alone, would they have become so atrractive to people. Was mainly kids using them before they became illegal, then people were using them in preference to Class A stuff.

sapphire

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2014, 05:33:33 PM »
Yeah, I don't know. All the furore has certainly made more people aware of them who perhaps would not have been otherwise.

A lot of the hoo haa has been from the families of a couple of upper middle class girls who died from taking them. Have to wonder if it was a working class kid from a single family, would there have been as much if an uproar? Doubt it.

simon

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2014, 06:00:12 PM »
Yeah, I don't know. All the furore has certainly made more people aware of them who perhaps would not have been otherwise.

A lot of the hoo haa has been from the families of a couple of upper middle class girls who died from taking them. Have to wonder if it was a working class kid from a single family, would there have been as much if an uproar? Doubt it.
Well if a poor family had a child disappear in Portugal, likely they'd be in prison. There wouldn't be people digging for the body today.

stumps

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2014, 10:48:45 PM »
There is so much information on the net and it is amazing how much social media has fuelled this. It is a developing field and starting to see more of this in treatment services. Having to do detoxes for legal highs and it is an interesting place.

 The trouble is that there is so much stuff available that changes each day. Say what you like for gear but we know what it does.  I can remember when people were saying Ketamine was safe and then we started seeing people with scarred bladders and suddenly Ketamine does not seem so safe as it was.

Workers need to get more experience and knowledge around this subject as do the people using it. But harm reduction advice has to be sought out on the internet whilst as you say a couple of middle class kids dying and this becomes like the Leah Betts scenario

sapphire

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2014, 12:26:04 PM »
A lot of the issue seems to be that when people seek help for NPS help, they are funnelled through to the local drug service, where the keyworkers don't really know much about the NPS's. They really need to get everyone up to date.

I'm pretty sure that all the hype around this has probably made more kids try them, than have been put off them.

simon

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2014, 01:51:50 PM »
As far as I'm concerned I treat it as any other stimulant and it's probably impossible to know about each one.

Scallywag

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2014, 02:21:50 PM »
There is so much information on the net and it is amazing how much social media has fuelled this. It is a developing field and starting to see more of this in treatment services. Having to do detoxes for legal highs and it is an interesting place.

 The trouble is that there is so much stuff available that changes each day. Say what you like for gear but we know what it does.  I can remember when people were saying Ketamine was safe and then we started seeing people with scarred bladders and suddenly Ketamine does not seem so safe as it was.

Workers need to get more experience and knowledge around this subject as do the people using it. But harm reduction advice has to be sought out on the internet whilst as you say a couple of middle class kids dying and this becomes like the Leah Betts scenario


Also, the strength is inconsistent, so HR isn't as straight forward as for the old school drugs.
The effects on the individual are also more varied because they are 'unknowns'..
Another factor for me is our use of drugs. We seem to binge rather than enjoy the 'experience' so problems are more likely to happen if you over do stuff. What's clear for me is that legal highs are partly about avoiding detection and developing new markets that will possibly be more problematic than the older generation drugs.

sapphire

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2014, 01:41:59 PM »
As they haven't been tried and tested on the market for as long as traditional drug have, even if the doses were consistent in the packages (which they are unlikely to be given the conditions they are made under) people just don't know how much is 'too much' which could have deadly consequences.

I'd be really interested to know if any DSP staff have been briefed by their manager, or had extra training from their service to enable them to treat patients presenting with 'legal high' problems?

OP8S

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2014, 12:19:30 PM »
I think that we've had 2 deaths in the area from legal highs. We've also had deaths from opioid overdose. I think the people that od'd on dope may not of done so if they hadn't been " motivated " off their scripts by the DSP. ( hope that makes sense the keyboard on my laptop has been damaged )
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2014, 01:14:24 PM »
What has happened here, is that the people that were using MMT as harm reduction, and were still using, have now been forced back to solely street drugs. As a result, acquisitive crime, OD's, and incidences of Hep C infection have gone up massively.

I don't know if it's the same in other places, but I can't imagine it would be that different.

OP8S

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2014, 01:42:49 PM »
Ditto    >:(
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2014, 01:38:41 PM »
It's bad isn't it. Sending people with addiction problems back underground, with practically no harm reduction is taking us back to the bad old days. I just don't know what the government are thinking.  ::)

Scallywag

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2014, 02:01:06 PM »
I'd be really interested to know if any DSP staff have been briefed by their manager, or had extra training from their service to enable them to treat patients presenting with 'legal high' problems?

Hi Sapphire,
I was given training not long ago and it was mainly info about how they work, are manufactured and the varying effects and the legal stuff. It was very interesting but the trainer admitted himself, there is little to suggest in terms of HR because they are relatively new, so the impacts are not yet realised other than the acute affect on mental health and user at the time.

I guess, it's about thinking safety first and trying to establish the type of drug it is e.g stims or psyches and then adapting approach. It seems clear at the moment that dosing is key and is a good place to start, but that's my point earlier. If they are used without getting advice, then it's a roulette game.

sapphire

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2014, 04:54:19 PM »
Yes, I realise that the long term effects cannot yet be known, but due to the prevalence of them I would have thought/hoped that DSP's would at least brief staff about them.

Yours' seems good in that at least they have bought the matter up so that everyone is aware of it. I know that treatment staff like yourself will know about them, but unfortunately, not all are so proactive, and as a result only know what they've read in the papers, which is about as much as a member of the general public!

There's not really any evidence base that substitute prescribing works well for stimulants, so I guess harm reduction and support is about as much as we can hope for at the moment.

What I was wondering, I know that the NPS chemists are tinkering with MDMA and amphet molecules to come up with legal versions, but are there any that are like 'tweaked' opiates or benzo's?

stumps

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Re: The rise of legal highs
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2014, 09:21:12 PM »
I have been aging for training for a while. There is some information and a chap from KFX does some good stuff but think how long the HR message took to come through re the old drugs. It will take time and a lot of research. Crew in Scotland are very good about such things but I do worry about some of the messages.

My all time favourite was a service in a previous  life telling me nowhere locally sold them. I took the manager to the industrial estate behind their building and showed them their local head shop.

It is amazing what a little local knowledge can do. it is also amazing what you find out from asking people who do the drugs. It is early days on the HR front but we can but ask and feed this into the national data and advice.

Workers could do with a forum such as this to follow