Author Topic: No Concerns or Compliments ?  (Read 9175 times)

OP8S

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No Concerns or Compliments ?
« on: April 07, 2015, 03:08:05 PM »
With the lack of activity on the forum at present would it be safe to assume that everybody in treatment for opioid dependency that has access to the internet is having a fantastic time with their new provider's ? CRI , Addaction , Turning Point & the rest. Has everybody decided that they want to remain abstinent & reduce of their med's   ???

If that's the case then the few regular posters here should expect 5 star treatment , yes a script for medication more expensive than methadone perhaps diamorph or morphine will suit me fine   ::)   ( fat chance )

Or could it be that more users are not wanting to involve themselves with the hassle of constant encouraged reductions & are getting their opioid's from the street's ?

I know the Alliance has considerably downsized but addiction certainly hasn't & I find it hard to believe that everybody is happy with the Recovery policies...

I can only assume that a lot of people have sold their pc's , laptops or tablet's for the price of a bag ?
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 03:27:25 PM »
LOL OP. From what I hear from people, I cannot imagine that everyone has nothing to complain about!!

More likely that DSP's have made SU's bugger off as they're sick of hoop jumping. The thing is though, the more people that DO complain, the less we have to complain, iyswim?

As long as service users are happy and willing to put up with shot service, DSP's will continue to treat patients as if they're in the medical ghetto.

The more that people complain, the less likely that services are to push people about.

John Divney

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 05:32:23 PM »
There doesn't seem to be many posting that's true but there are always a dozen or more online, don't know who but I guess they are lurkers.
I am not sure what clout this forum has anymore in a smiley recovery world of NA and AA, who listens to what we are saying, we half dozen? Peter did go to meetings with big knobs now and then and presumably was listened to because MMT got bigger and better.

Drug treatment seems to me to be in a dreadful 'Through the Looking Glass' situation. What is it doing, what is it for? What does it aspire too?
Drug overdoses and deaths are on the increase, Hep C is on the increase, burglaries and street crime are on the increase and everyone seems more bothered about legal highs and kiddie crack...in Liverpool anyway. No one seems concerned about heroin users and old meth heads from the 80s.

All these new services Sapphire mentioned, my new one as well, are set up to deliberately get people out of treatment and they are measured on that basis. Not on keeping people alive and healthy and out of prison. As long as their bosses keep sucking up to Ian Duncan Smith and that Grayling person who tried to ban books from prisons they will continue to get contracts at the expense of the NHS, which is just another Tory policy anyway. Prisons are in a right state too, saw the re-run of the Strangeways riot in the 80s the other night on TV. Many old heads from the Wirral were on that prison roof, sadly all bar one dead. All they were after was better treatment and history is now repeating itself.

I'm not sure who is bothered about us, either in the Government or anywhere. Drug Scope has gone, maybe it is time to pack it in and relaunch somewhere else. End of an era?
I think the Government would be pleased to see us all fade away and die anyway, it would save them thousands on their beloved welfare budget.

At least the weather is nice.

OP8S

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 08:44:59 PM »
^ I like your final sentence John.   

Yes the opinions of people just wishing to take their cheap & perfectly legal  medication so that they can get on with their lives in a society that doesn't  seem to care much about anything more than their own materialistic possessions , aren't included in the new world of recovery. One might think that our experience of OST is being repressed by those who want only shiny abstinence to make the headlines.

As Sapph say's though all the old evils are on the increase again , BBV's , OD's & the like . The public will only shout out when the crime rates shoot up due to acquisitive crime I'm afraid.
I just don't know why more people aren't complaining which leads me to believe they've given up with treatment & sold their laptops  to fund their habits again. A shocking state of affairs indeed. Surely there's more than a handful of dependants ready to fight the power  though...?

Like you say though at least the weather's taken a turn for the better.   :)
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

John Divney

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2015, 10:05:53 AM »
I have never been in a position where I felt like complaining really, my complaints would be about me I think, how I blew it again, what went wrong etc. The MMT service I had always seemed fine and was always there when I needed it. I was a patient of a NHS service committed to my welfare and stability.

I don't know how to complain anyway, who to? Is there an ombudsman? Can't see CRI publicising a how to complain leaflet, do you. Are they legally obliged to have one?
When it was the NHS there was an advertised and promoted complaints procedure, don't know how effective it was but at least you were a patient not a customer. Now as a customer anywhere else I have rights, what consumer rights apply to my treatment now with CRI. Do I have to look elsewhere, a second opinion perhaps. I had that right when I was being treated for a nerve condition I have had in my hands for many years. Eventually I went to a hospital in Liverpool which is superb, rather than my somewhat second rate one locally.

Sapph often talks about the orange guidelines, I wish I knew more about them and how binding they are. What are the standards I should expect?

I do not want to be totally under the rule of a keyworker employed by a company who has been bought to deliver recovery. This seems most unfair and traps me in a service that I do not want. There must be a choice about this, surely. We live in a world full of choice, most of it pointless I agree, but addiction treatment should also have a response based on choice. After all there are many views on addiction and its causes and as many again on the proper responses to it. From prohibition to Portugal to 'shoot the buggers' to MMT!

I have decided to bite the bullet this week and ask my GP on Friday if she will take me on as her MMT patient in her surgery rather than have some two way deal with CRI. On the whole I prefer to be treated as a NHS patient and not as a customer of a recovery agency.

Rant over.....check out the weather again OP8S. Superb.

Scallywag

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 11:16:16 AM »
My experience is that very few of our su's bother to complain to the service, but they do to each other. I'm not sure why. Roger Waters penned a lyric that resonates for me "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way".
I also think it's an aspect of the disaffected mind... "What's the point?". All i know is if you don't tell them what you want and don't want. you'll get what you're given....
The whole sector has been sold out from under your feet.

fixed

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 01:12:18 PM »
not posting atm as im making a complaint via release to try & sort my recent problems. Will post the results at a later date.

sapphire

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 02:03:23 PM »
John - that program about the Strangeways riot was pretty interesting wasn't it?!

John Divney

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 03:39:12 PM »
Brought back memories for sure and also a reminder of how far we have come since 1990. Merseyside was a madhouse back then, seemed like everyone was on the brown.
There wasn't any treatment really then, just a mad psych in the local hospital and a few maverick GPs. One of whom ended up prescribing at the Drug Service in the hospital, a good service really, friendly and a bit wacky at times but always helpful. Actually best thing was you never really saw anyone, maybe thats not right but it helped me. I was never that involved with all the real madness, bit wary and scared I suppose, never fancied prison, but you had to be involved in some way. I am lucky though as I have had a job for a while.
Seems so sad to have come so far from then and all that progress seems about to be lost with this recovery philosophy. Maybe it's just the way I'm feeling but I can't shake off the feeling that MMT has had its day and if the Tories get in again then time limited methadone will definitely be the best we can hope for. Detoxing and reductions V joining the local NA group.

OP8S

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2015, 12:22:09 PM »
Your right Scallywag , I was just listening to that the other day funnily enough. Maybe because I've got a job etc. I feel that my treatment shouldn't be any different to those treated medically for other conditions ? I would of thought that their would be more like myself ( employed or not ) who don't think that they should feel stigmatised for being prescribed  meth or bupe . Like you say though people are regularly complaining to each other , I always tell them to visit the forum but to my knowledge only a couple actually have done to my knowledge.
Possibly they don't feel their grumbles warrant a complaint , but even just to come on this forum & have a bit of a moan may make these people realise that they are settling for a poor standard of treatment which would possibly make them decide to place a complaint.

I'm not a troublemaker by any means but I know when something is wrong & it's then that I find it hard not to voice my feelings. If I have to make a complaint then I shall do it in the proper way because I know just moaning to other's whether it's family or other users won't achieve anything.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2015, 12:29:30 PM »
My own prescriber was saying that commissioners are starting to see evidence that all this forcing people off scripts is counter productive. They are seeing increased rates of BBV's and crime and illicit opiate use. Now, at my place, instead of coercing people off scripts, they've increased anyone that felt they were unfairly reduced, and saying that anyone that wants maintenance is perfectly able to get it, which has made a lot of people at the service feel much more secure.

We had a load of problems with people actually dying as they were coerced off scripts, so the local commissioners are being more careful now. Shame that people had to die for them to do something about it.

OP8S

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2015, 12:38:29 PM »
They didn't have to go to the bother of " experimenting " with new modalities of treatment , if they had consulted those in treatment then they would of realised the idea was doomed to fail right from day one. People involved with substance use are probably the most informed patient group there is. Why ? because we have got to be as Dr's , Governments & Local Authorities are constantly trying to " win the war against drugs " .

I would suggest that they try & win the war against their own ignorance .
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2015, 12:34:55 PM »
I was actually very surprised that the commissioners in my area have decided that the bad (crime, increased BBV's) outweighs any positives (making their numbers look good) of making people reduce. They are quite a hard line bunch, and as we're in an extremely deprived area (the 2nd most deprived LA in the whole of England), they want to save money any way they can.

I do agree though, if they simply asked patients what they wanted, things would go a whole lot better!

What I can't understand is that it says in the Orange Book that coerced treatment is not advised, and is very rarely successful, yet some providers still persist with it? Do they not read the Orange Book, or do they just not care?

OP8S

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2015, 12:16:44 PM »
You wouldn't believe the number of people working in the field who have looked vacant when I've mentioned the guidelines . I've even supplied a couple of them with copies of my own , downloaded of the web & printed out for my own use . Most of these worker's have been employed around the time of the Recovery policies so I think that is the only policy they have read up on.

I suppose it sounds better quoting from that when applying for jobs these days ?

I don't know how some of them have even got the job !?
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

John Divney

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Re: No Concerns or Compliments ?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2015, 12:33:34 PM »
I have a copy of this orange book now and it does make interesting reading. Is this the book that GPs and other people prescribing should be following?
Who oversees their compliance and who do we complain to if they are not following these guidelines. When it was the NHS it was at least relatively clear that there was a complaints procedure. The problem with privatisation of any industry is that any all regulation and accountability also goes out of the window. Have you ever tried to find out who is digging up the road, again, at the bottom of your road. Try complaining about cold telephone calls, bank charges, even the police; parking tickets and clampers are out of control in Liverpool.

Who oversees these agencies like Addaction and CRI and Turning Point? Is anyone keeping an eye on them especially if, like people are saying, Hep C and deaths and crime are increasing.