Time limit

[andy222]

I visited the clinic(CRI Hatfield) yesterday I had to wait half an hour passed my appointment time and then I saw the doctor. But it was not the usual one but a doctor that was shipped in and there was 4 of them on site because of some complaint, which seemed a little excessive. In any case I saw the doctor and he told me that I will have to come off my methadone over the next 2 years, I was a bit speechless. He said it was government policy and that after the 2 years they will make it compulsory. He came across very serious and was some what heavy in his attitude. True I have been on methadone for a lot of years, but I have only given up taking heroin 2 years back. Do you know if this is true? Because it's the only thing that keep's me going.

[John Divney]

This kind of thing is what scares me the most.
Everyone tells me, this site, people I know in the business, etc. that this is not true. Yet CRI and probably others are seemingly doing whatever they want.
Where are PHE, or the Local Authority or the commissioners who bought this service. How is it that patients can be told this? I cannot believe that CRIs doctors invented this, their bosses in CRI must have told them that this is happening. It can't come out of thin air.
Who is in charge of this rotten system that is either lying to people or knows the truth. IT STINKS.

[misgog]

From a professional standpoint...and after a couple of decades in the field I know this is utter horseshite....yes there is unrelenting pressure on services to produce the golden egg that is an opiate successful discharge but to be told that is a disgrace. A summary of your consultation will be held in your casefile, write and ask for a copy as part of a complaint with the support of your service user rep ( CRI should have one) . Nice guidelines are very useful but there is a vital element that clinicians often choose to ignore " PATIENT CHOICE" !!!

Clinicians can give opinions, recommendations and guidance but they cannot lie or deceive like this . 

[fixed]

oh this again. I thought we had got past this. this was quite common a few years back esp with CRI. but then it was the key workers spouting this rubbish. im disgusted to see that Drs who you would usually regard as someone you could trust to now be telling lies to vulnerable patients. there is no time limit or new guidelines that say everyone has to come off. I would advise you to make a complaint to the DSP against this Doctor for telling lies & misinforming patients of the rules & guidelines concerning treatment.
I had this from a key worker about 3 years back & when I confronted the Dr about it he passed it off as an unfortunate mistake by the key worker who for some unknown reason left CRI shortly after.

[OP8S]

It's bully boy tactics & it's bollocks. Contact your local PALs ( citizen advice bureau ) , complain to their management & to your MP. Keep copies of everything . Reduction should be patient led.

Still using the 2 year story...why do they always say two years ? Just say no.

[John Divney]

"...with the support of your service user rep ( CRI should have one)"

Like when the police investigate themselves, a likely story!
Independent, PALs etc. or RELEASE or The Alliance even??

But complain...please.

[John Divney]

Hi Andy 222

You could start by blogging on this site:

http://www.collectivevoice.org.uk/

CRI are in this cabal of drug charities and they seem to be saying that they want to improve things. They don't mention MMT anywhere, dirty word these days, but Paul Hayes is in charge and he used to run the pro-MMT group, the NTA before the Tories shut it all down.
Not 100% what Collective Voice are trying to do other than lobby for business from the Tories at the expense of the NHS but it might be worth a go.

[Jackwhan]

Hi

I have an excellent key at the moment supported by a doctor who is totally against enforced/coerced abstinence and will ask about these rumors during my next review in early Jan.

There is a new national drug strategy due to published in March 2016. However, the government's own advisory body published another report concerning OST and recovery in October, again warning against the introduction of time-limited treatment. Due to NICE and other clinical guidelines, withdrawing the option of long-term methadone/bupe treatment would be, not only detrimental to health and a threat to life, but open to legal challenge.

With public health funding being slashed and a new drug strategy on the horizon, this is a worrying time for anyone on a prescription. We hope, once again, that the evidence (not to mention common sense) will prevail.

Jack

[OP8S]

Amen to that ^

Do you know any other service users that have had the bully boy tactics, where there's one case there's likely to be more if that's the DSP's attitude.
If they're are others make a joint complaint , you wont be the only one struggling.

I thought that this whole enforced reduction thing had been recognised by the medical community as a failure & many were returning to what they do best. Providing clean opioid's for those in need.

[Mark Gilman]

LOCALISM

[John Divney]

You say LOCALISM Mark as though that answers everything we are all concerned about.

What then is the point of a National Drug Strategy, to be renewed in March. NICE Guidelines, the Orange book, the Governments own Advisory Groups on drugs and recovery.
Do you mean that if the Local Authority in my area decided to not bother in providing drug treatment, MMT based or recovery based, then they do not have to.
A lot of areas are quite polarised as to what drug treatment says it does and what it actually does do. Do areas now need to decide whether they think its worth spending money on some form of drug treatment' and no one will hold them to account on that decision if they have decided to not bother and leave it to A&E and GPs or hope that AA and NA can pick it up in some way. Its going back in time to the 80s/90s when no one gave a shit about drug users, until AIDS came our way that is. Christ we even got the blame for that.
Conversely if a Local Authority believes fervently in a state of the art drug treatment response and invest heavily in its delivery, then it can do so and devise its own guidelines and measures for success. I wonder were that place would be...Zanadu?

[andy222]

Thanks for all your responses.
I have decided to let it go for now, till the new year and then see what happens then.
A bit of background info, I am 66yrs old and have been on meth for approx 22yrs. I went for a detox back in 2001 and it was so horrible and hard to come off even though it was using Lofexidine at the Max Glatt unit in London. I do feel that it is to soon to come off methadone at the moment particularly because I have only stopped using H in the last
2 years plus I have been on meth for so long plus my age.
But I was aware of the government stance, so we will see the outcome in march 2016.
Thankyou again and have a good Xmas and a great New Year. Andy

[OP8S]

You say LOCALISM Mark as though that answers everything we are all concerned about.

What then is the point of a National Drug Strategy, to be renewed in March. NICE Guidelines, the Orange book, the Governments own Advisory Groups on drugs and recovery.
Do you mean that if the Local Authority in my area decided to not bother in providing drug treatment, MMT based or recovery based, then they do not have to.
A lot of areas are quite polarised as to what drug treatment says it does and what it actually does do. Do areas now need to decide whether they think its worth spending money on some form of drug treatment' and no one will hold them to account on that decision if they have decided to not bother and leave it to A&E and GPs or hope that AA and NA can pick it up in some way. Its going back in time to the 80s/90s when no one gave a shit about drug users, until AIDS came our way that is. Christ we even got the blame for that.
Conversely if a Local Authority believes fervently in a state of the art drug treatment response and invest heavily in its delivery, then it can do so and devise its own guidelines and measures for success. I wonder were that place would be...Zanadu?

If that turned out to be the case then the areas providing the best drug treatment may attract " treatment refugees " from the areas that don't support OST & maintenance prescribing.

Best of luck Andy , let us know what the January appointment brings ?

[John Divney]

Just like it was in the 80s OP8S. We used to trek over to the Widnes clinic and Dr Marks because all you got in Birkenhead was 40mls of meth reduced over 6 weeks from a pysc at the hospital. Liverpool was not worth bothering with, it was like trying to break 'into' prison! As Wirral Drug Service got better and Dr Jan gave better scripts once Dr Marks got into lumber we stayed at home because treatment was good. I fear this Post Code Lottery approach will happen again especially as money gets tighter and tighter. Hard choices will be made and I don't think drug users have ever been first in the queue for a piece of cake.
I have left the Wirral services, now run by CRI, and moved to Liverpool for a script from a GP there, because of what CRI seems to represent; a move away from MMT to a recovery and abstinence based service. Not my choice.

[OP8S]

Not so easy for me to make a change like that due to where I live as well as the fact that it's the local NHS who have the contract now & seem to be going down the " recover all ye sinners " route .
I could maybe ask a GP to take me on as a mainstream patient , can't say whether the big-wigs would allow that ? Makes sense when I've only had a handful of appointments over this past year because I'm busy working. I can't say that I'm being forced to reduce either , highly encouraged maybe but I've got pain issues that just makes the situation a whole lot more complicated.