Author Topic: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped  (Read 10486 times)

simon

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Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« on: February 12, 2017, 03:50:57 PM »
http://www.pendletoday.co.uk/news/crime/thief-stole-food-to-fund-habit-1-8382652
Forwarded to me anonymously, another person forced off a prescription because they don't/can't jump through the hoops.

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2017, 05:32:44 PM »
From a financial perspective having the prescription stopped has cost the system/tax payer a lot more than simply maintaining what sounds like a patient who's benefited from a methadone script. I wonder what the course was ?  Can't think of any course that would be so important that not attending it would result in a prescription being stopped ? Is there any other patient group that has to engage in courses so that they can hold onto a prescription..NO
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2017, 08:05:05 PM »
It's really not fair and pushes people to crime, there's little other option. Imagine heart attack, you need to take medication and here's a bit of cardiac rehab work to help, you don't have to do it but people see the benefit. Is there any benefit from doing courses people don't want, that's just wasting cash.

John Divney

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2017, 09:31:06 PM »
I need to go on a Twitter course. Not sure I know what I'm doing. I know Simon uses it...anyone else??

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2017, 11:24:25 PM »
I need to go on a Twitter course. Not sure I know what I'm doing. I know Simon uses it...anyone else??
You're doing great.

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2017, 03:58:48 PM »
I'd still be interested in knowing what the course was , what could be so important that by not attending you're in danger of losing a very important medication ? A script can be the difference between, stability & chaotic drug use, between risking catching a BBV or not, between overdosing or not. It could be the difference between life & death in the most extreme scenario.
If users are aggressive & threaten GP's, Nurses, Pharmacists or others involved in treatment then it's understandable that you would lose your script, but not attending a course ? Surely patients aren't contractually obligated to attend anything apart from their appointments with a suitable health professional.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

John Divney

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2017, 05:15:44 PM »
I remember when Wirral Drug Service started 'Understanding Methadone' seminars for new starters onto a script. The person who ran it wouldn't let a script start until the person attended the three half days. This went on for some months until hardly anyone completed the course and virtually no one started a script. Dr Stef went mad when he found out and pointed out that you only start attending courses once you are on a script. He stopped this immediately and said to the irate staff member, a gobshite who hated drug users, that the course could still run and people should attend. No one turned up though so it shut down completely. We are a fickle lot..! I am pleased to say, Dr Stef always laughed at this though.
Another attempt, years ago, to get peoples job chances improved who were on a script was JCP sponsored 'Fork Lift Driver' courses. Needless to say many did do the course, hardly anyone got a job though, and so many did the course that if you said you had a fork lift driver certificate, people knew you were on a script!
But I don't know many who would turn the chance down of a decent vocational training course, through a local college, IT or something, gas fitter etc. Not CGL 'Inner Self' courses or Zumba Classes or even creative poetry writing, something with a fuckin' job at the end of it! But as many point out and still do, why should drug users get better opportunities than non-drug users? That attitude is still there.

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2017, 05:50:34 PM »
I'd still be interested in knowing what the course was , what could be so important that by not attending you're in danger of losing a very important medication ? A script can be the difference between, stability & chaotic drug use, between risking catching a BBV or not, between overdosing or not. It could be the difference between life & death in the most extreme scenario.
If users are aggressive & threaten GP's, Nurses, Pharmacists or others involved in treatment then it's understandable that you would lose your script, but not attending a course ? Surely patients aren't contractually obligated to attend anything apart from their appointments with a suitable health professional.
Imagine someone desperate for a prescription and asked to sign a 'contract', could be loads of different conditions in them. I used contracts for a very short time about 14yrs ago, everyone used them so it seemed a good thing to do. I soon realised it was a total waste of time, expecting someone really chaotic to come on time, remember what they signed and make punitive sanctions against the very vulnerable, well I just couldn't do it. Decided I'd just ban people who were very abusive or attacked me/took me hostage, that sort of thing. Can't expect someone on loads of drugs to not be a bit gobby, not all but some but they soon settled with a quiet word and treatment.

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2017, 06:05:42 PM »
I remember when Wirral Drug Service started 'Understanding Methadone' seminars for new starters onto a script. The person who ran it wouldn't let a script start until the person attended the three half days. This went on for some months until hardly anyone completed the course and virtually no one started a script. Dr Stef went mad when he found out and pointed out that you only start attending courses once you are on a script. He stopped this immediately and said to the irate staff member, a gobshite who hated drug users, that the course could still run and people should attend. No one turned up though so it shut down completely. We are a fickle lot..! I am pleased to say, Dr Stef always laughed at this though.
Another attempt, years ago, to get peoples job chances improved who were on a script was JCP sponsored 'Fork Lift Driver' courses. Needless to say many did do the course, hardly anyone got a job though, and so many did the course that if you said you had a fork lift driver certificate, people knew you were on a script!
But I don't know many who would turn the chance down of a decent vocational training course, through a local college, IT or something, gas fitter etc. Not CGL 'Inner Self' courses or Zumba Classes or even creative poetry writing, something with a fuckin' job at the end of it! But as many point out and still do, why should drug users get better opportunities than non-drug users? That attitude is still there.
We had commissioners who wanted people to go on courses to see if they were motivated, well they weren't  motivated to go on the courses, others things took priority.
We did all those FLT courses years ago, they were as predictable as Bully's star prize being a speed boat.
Courses really should be about education and employment with the help of local sympathetic employers. Our new DSP is partnered with a college who have been sympathetic to people who have used drugs/had mental health problems. Two of my patients have gone from there to get degrees, that's meaningful, not a you must not use drugs course.

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 04:59:15 PM »
If the Recovery Team had given me the choice of spending their budget on a load of psycho-social harassment on a monthly basis or offering me a bit of financial support to study at college while I was unemployed then they wouldn't of wasted their time, my time & a good few quid. I'm not saying that I would no longer be on a script, but I would of benefited from such an arrangement. Instead they made life even shittier, using the fact that I was unemployed as a bit of leverage to encourage me ( force me ) to reduce & were unhappy when I got a job. All in all a total waste of resources, one meeting was attended by a psychiatrist, a CPN, a pharmacist, care co-ordinator & the head of services, the combined salaries of all in attendance for one hour would probably of cost more than a lifetimes supply of meth.
Nearly 5 years of disagreements regarding Recovery & they've now returned me back to my GP as a purple failure, they probably could of funded me through a degree course.
Wouldn't it be great if people were given the option ? Years of costly psycho-social bollocks or a few quid towards higher education !
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 05:16:49 PM »
There's lot of educational courses that can help just about anyone, you don't have to be super brain to better yourself in some way. I think college courses even in basic maths and English is a brilliant start, attending the same college everyone else goes to, not somewhere just for people who use or have used drugs.
You're right all these meetings are a waste of time, I see local rationing for Hep C treatment now where a case has to be taken to a board to agree funding, how much does all this cost?
We have a lot of very bright and creative people on Methadone, surely colleges and training can help if they're unemployed, stable or not and want to better themselves.

Scallywag

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 06:17:34 PM »
It's devisive. I can remember suggestions a few years back of cdt's being located in Job Centres so users could be 'assisted' in to looking for work but i never saw any actually happen. The service i worked at previously had 'gateway' courses run by the recovery services. Clients would be encouraged to be referred to it but not told it was an 'exiting treatment' pathway... when we realised the workers challenged it and it wasn't pushed further. A side reflection of how some managers have been subverted to be 'creative' in attaining exit from treatment stats and conflicting with their workers.
I remember when services were designed around the needs of the client, now its the opposite. Sadly

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 06:21:43 PM »
It's devisive. I can remember suggestions a few years back of cdt's being located in Job Centres so users could be 'assisted' in to looking for work but i never saw any actually happen. The service i worked at previously had 'gateway' courses run by the recovery services. Clients would be encouraged to be referred to it but not told it was an 'exiting treatment' pathway... when we realised the workers challenged it and it wasn't pushed further. A side reflection of how some managers have been subverted to be 'creative' in attaining exit from treatment stats and conflicting with their workers.
I remember when services were designed around the needs of the client, now its the opposite. Sadly
How many people have criminal convictions and would not get jobs easily? Some can get creative if self-employed and less questions are asked.
Conflict of one sort or another is a common theme in services that are supposed to help, odd that.

Scallywag

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 07:05:01 PM »
Absolutely. If society wants drug users to reintegrate then it has to accept their pasts. Many but not all have criminal convictions that can limit their chances of finding work, whilst others just for using drugs can face similar discrimination.
Sadly, drug use is demonised and is useful in creating 'an enemy' to society, so to forgive and reduce the discrimination conflicts with that view. One client i worked with said "I've got over 50 reasons why i can't get a job, so if i get sanctioned for not getting one, there's only crime i can turn to"

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 07:44:38 PM »
Absolutely. If society wants drug users to reintegrate then it has to accept their pasts. Many but not all have criminal convictions that can limit their chances of finding work, whilst others just for using drugs can face similar discrimination.
Sadly, drug use is demonised and is useful in creating 'an enemy' to society, so to forgive and reduce the discrimination conflicts with that view. One client i worked with said "I've got over 50 reasons why i can't get a job, so if i get sanctioned for not getting one, there's only crime i can turn to"
We could do so much better to support people, maybe in time it will come, maybe when drugs don't mean crime but mean just health interventions...one day...maybe...