Author Topic: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped  (Read 9873 times)

John Divney

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2017, 09:00:55 PM »
I think Mark Gilman has said that drug services exist for the staff not the client/patient. They are there so the staff can get on, get training and qualifications, promotion etc etc. Thats what you expect when someone applies for a drug worker post, I'm not knocking it but they are not designed so that we get on at all. I get sick to death of so called recovered addicts turning up as volunteers and sometimes staff at the agency who recovered them, its not real, its false and is still a dependence issue IMO. We are just there for them to get a good living out off, a decent job, well paid, a house and a couple of holidays a year. Even these so called charities make money out of us. Imagine a world where they were paid for jobs found and maintained for six months for their clients, instead of being paid for discharging someone as drug free and recovered because they say so, its such a lot of bollocks. Most NHS MMT units offer state medication on behalf of the non drug using population anyway so their houses don't get robbed, they don't offer a new life, a different life. Just state meds. Recovery try to offer a new life, a different life, but I don't see it really, not unless you can get a job back with your drug service.
Timpsons still employ ex addicts quite intentionally as they believe a reformed addict is the most trustworthy, bit Quakerish...but it can be done I suppose. There are other firms who do the same but they are few, Woolworths was another one I think. I suspect it is easier to reveal an addicted past as an alcoholic rather than as an opiate addict, we are on the edge of the legal world after all and most addicts get involved in crime even if it just the world of scoring the fuckin' stuff we are addicted to. Throw in a few stretches here and there and we are going nowhere. Everyone likes a recovered alcoholic, bad-ass ex-opiate addicts are an acquired taste! I know some lovely and inspiring ex-users, all from a bad past littered with crime and scary drug tales, dreadful life stories, great guys but only two have jobs and they both work in the field, the rest volunteer or work within NA.
Fuck me, get all that on Twitter! Sorry about waffling on but a bit pissed off today, feeling really low.....getting old man!

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2017, 11:40:49 PM »
I'm not sure I'd want to work in a service I'd used, I found most lacking. Where else does having a problem make you an expert on it and a paid member of the team? I'm nominating my Dad to be a surgeon because he had his gall bladder removed and has sharp tools.

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2017, 04:01:40 PM »
Ha, my couldn't couldn't care less coordinator kept suggesting that I should get a diploma in counselling & return as a drugs worker. Another devious ploy to get me off my script. I could never of carried out treatment the way that shower of shit did/do. I do quite fancy doing some advocacy training & darkening their door as a advocate for patients though , the lady from PALs seemed to think it would be quite a good idea having someone with a users perspective.
That would truly piss them off, seeing my face again asking what guidelines they were working from. :)
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2017, 04:22:17 PM »
Ha, my couldn't couldn't care less coordinator kept suggesting that I should get a diploma in counselling & return as a drugs worker. Another devious ploy to get me off my script. I could never of carried out treatment the way that shower of shit did/do. I do quite fancy doing some advocacy training & darkening their door as a advocate for patients though , the lady from PALs seemed to think it would be quite a good idea having someone with a users perspective.
That would truly piss them off, seeing my face again asking what guidelines they were working from. :)
I think that is a good idea for people and I hope we could get funding for alliance advocates as they used to have. We used to have 'expert patients' not heard of any for some time though.
A bit of hand holding for people who are bullied would be great, why do people keep getting bullied?

Scallywag

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2017, 08:16:09 PM »
It's an easy call to slag services when things don't go the way you want. I was a boss worker if i got someone a benzo script, increase or even just on changed pick ups. I was a fuckin useless one if i with held a script because the client missed the max days for none collection or had to chalkenge their behaviour/attitude.
I never took it to heart because it's all part of the not my fault mentality... it wasn't mine either so it was what it was. I've seen some very good services because of their philosophy but I've seen them turn bad because of pressures from commissioners or funders. Lifeline was a pioneer of harm reduction before it became a recovery service. The waterloo project was a good place before it got finished up.. The treatment sector is a political football and that's the tragedy.. slagging workers for working in them is pointless. If they left, they'd be replaced by ex users who are cheap to employ, grateful for the chance but also a bit evangelical at times... been there, done that, know where you're coming from purely because they used gear too... absolutely no other connection to you but they used drugs. Poachers turned game keepers. The state's dream workers.

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2017, 11:21:29 PM »
It's an easy call to slag services when things don't go the way you want. I was a boss worker if i got someone a benzo script, increase or even just on changed pick ups. I was a fuckin useless one if i with held a script because the client missed the max days for none collection or had to chalkenge their behaviour/attitude.
I never took it to heart because it's all part of the not my fault mentality... it wasn't mine either so it was what it was. I've seen some very good services because of their philosophy but I've seen them turn bad because of pressures from commissioners or funders. Lifeline was a pioneer of harm reduction before it became a recovery service. The waterloo project was a good place before it got finished up.. The treatment sector is a political football and that's the tragedy.. slagging workers for working in them is pointless. If they left, they'd be replaced by ex users who are cheap to employ, grateful for the chance but also a bit evangelical at times... been there, done that, know where you're coming from purely because they used gear too... absolutely no other connection to you but they used drugs. Poachers turned game keepers. The state's dream workers.
I don't ever get pestered for things like sleeping tablets anymore, haven't done for years. When I did I expected it to be part of the job, when I realised these requests diminished with adequate Methadone/Subutex doses I realised it perhaps wasn't part of the job. It's possible people just got them elsewhere but I didn't see and don't see many chaotic people, maybe they've just grown up, dunno.
Health outcomes should be the reason for funding and not politics, sadly doesn't happen like that and your points are very valid.

John Divney

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2017, 08:26:12 AM »
When GPs first began to try and help they gave out as a standard script 40mls of meth and 4 moggies a day for everyone, not many gave temazepam. It attracted lots of punters and surgeries began to fill up with the new heroin users. They were swamped pretty quickly though and pills were everywhere. Stefan began prescribing from the drug service and took over scripts as new workers began. He hated the pill culture though. it seemed to create 'nutters' and chaos, some of the most chaotic users were more hooked on moggies than the gear. Being on 80mls meth and more and no pills was safer all round. I always felt people I knew were brighter, more themselves, without the pills; I always hated them as they left me unable to even think straight and always feeling absolutely caned. They stopped giving them out in the end and just ended up with a few genuine cases of severe dependence who had some major issues with everything.
Not sure what the internet scene is here really, because I can't imagine CGL giving out sleepers, they seem to dislike prescribing methadone! I think perhaps they have had their day, maybe they fitted the heroin world that was better than the drug world now. Meth and sleepers not a combination many seek.

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2017, 12:08:54 PM »
When GPs first began to try and help they gave out as a standard script 40mls of meth and 4 moggies a day for everyone, not many gave temazepam. It attracted lots of punters and surgeries began to fill up with the new heroin users. They were swamped pretty quickly though and pills were everywhere. Stefan began prescribing from the drug service and took over scripts as new workers began. He hated the pill culture though. it seemed to create 'nutters' and chaos, some of the most chaotic users were more hooked on moggies than the gear. Being on 80mls meth and more and no pills was safer all round. I always felt people I knew were brighter, more themselves, without the pills; I always hated them as they left me unable to even think straight and always feeling absolutely caned. They stopped giving them out in the end and just ended up with a few genuine cases of severe dependence who had some major issues with everything.
Not sure what the internet scene is here really, because I can't imagine CGL giving out sleepers, they seem to dislike prescribing methadone! I think perhaps they have had their day, maybe they fitted the heroin world that was better than the drug world now. Meth and sleepers not a combination many seek.
Wow that takes me back to when I first started working in prisons and just about everyone that wasn't a murderer was on Benzo's, not many were on Methadone though but things were just starting out in GP practiced then.
I didn''t know what I was doing back then, got some books, all said different things, was impossible to know what to do through books of personal opinions by someone or other. When we got to using clinical evidence and some sorts of standards it  was so much easier, before it was just this dose should be ok, one book said 30mg, one said 40mg, one said other doses, felt very unsafe and I really didn't know what to do.
Using clinical evidence was a eureka moment to me, could prove what was a reasonable thing to do, could show patients who disagreed with me why I suggested a certain path. The ones who said 'you just read it in a book' were right, they were also likely the ones who needed something to sell to buy gear but really needed Methadone and decent amounts of it.
Drug compnaies sponsored conferences so I did meet experts from around the world, people like Dr.Stephan for example, Prof Walter Ling, lots of people from America, Canada, some from Iran, Pakistan etc. I also met the chap who designed Buprenorphine, not many people know of him as he keeps a low profile, wonderful chap, really fascinating to talk to.
Anyway err benzo's I've only a few people on them and they are ones carried on from where psychiatrists have started them of for some physical reason. Nobody pesters me for them these days.

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2017, 06:57:30 PM »
I still get a script for a very small dose of a benzo type drug first started by a Cons at the sleep clinic, long before I even had a opioid habit, it's for a seizure disorder & has never been a misuse issue as my GP has repeated many times to the people trying to tell me that if I don't reduce my meth script then they will take over that prescription. Silly buggers had no idea why it had been prescribed originally & had nothing to do with medication prescribed by my GP but liked to use it as leverage. Decent doses of meth tend to keep people happy, it's when they're reduced to subtheraputic doses that they go looking for other things, apparently pregablin these days ?
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

John Divney

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2017, 07:11:22 PM »
I have some nerve damage in my left arm and it has often been really painful. I was prescribed Pregablin once by a consultant in an attempt to stop the tingling in my arm. Bloody hell, talk about bad nightmares and seeing things, rooms swimming with colour, voices outside and the most vivid, cartoon dreams I have ever had. I often found myself awake downstairs as part of the dream and once I was so convinced that there was someone in the roof void of my flat that I got dressed at 4 in the morning and drove to Chester to get away! Stopped taking them after that and got rid.

John Divney

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2017, 10:30:07 PM »
I think OP8S said once that he felt like he has been in an experiment of some sort or trial on the effects of MMT for the last thirty years, only to be told it didn't work, sorry about that, but good luck for the future. Beginning to feel a bit like that as well, "what was it like in the early days of MMT John?", tell us a story.

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2017, 10:12:23 AM »
I still get a script for a very small dose of a benzo type drug first started by a Cons at the sleep clinic, long before I even had a opioid habit, it's for a seizure disorder & has never been a misuse issue as my GP has repeated many times to the people trying to tell me that if I don't reduce my meth script then they will take over that prescription. Silly buggers had no idea why it had been prescribed originally & had nothing to do with medication prescribed by my GP but liked to use it as leverage. Decent doses of meth tend to keep people happy, it's when they're reduced to subtheraputic doses that they go looking for other things, apparently pregablin these days ?
There's been quite a few problems now with Pregabalin/Gabapentin, new Diazepam it seems, again risk of overdose increases, risk of deaths, we keep seeing more deaths. Most young, healthy-ish, fit young people who use drugs do not need to have them prescribed and they shouldn't be. A polite explanation why they aren't needed and the risks of taking them, and a please don't buy them just because I won't prescribe them should suffice 'I'm worried you may overdose and die'.
Explaining where drugs work, what they do, how they cause respiratory depression and death is I think useful.

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2017, 10:14:30 AM »
I have some nerve damage in my left arm and it has often been really painful. I was prescribed Pregablin once by a consultant in an attempt to stop the tingling in my arm. Bloody hell, talk about bad nightmares and seeing things, rooms swimming with colour, voices outside and the most vivid, cartoon dreams I have ever had. I often found myself awake downstairs as part of the dream and once I was so convinced that there was someone in the roof void of my flat that I got dressed at 4 in the morning and drove to Chester to get away! Stopped taking them after that and got rid.
Perhaps a low dose of amitriptiline may have helped? Chester is a lovely city, a pub I went in served my dog a bowl of water and a sausage cut up in a bowl, he wasn't keen on the train, minding the gap wasn't fun for him.

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2017, 04:17:51 PM »
I think OP8S said once that he felt like he has been in an experiment of some sort or trial on the effects of MMT for the last thirty years, only to be told it didn't work, sorry about that, but good luck for the future. Beginning to feel a bit like that as well, "what was it like in the early days of MMT John?", tell us a story.

The thing is it does bloody work, while maintained without any hassle life was good. Full employment, dispensing CD's on a daily basis for over a decade. Then Recovery arrived & I had pain meds taken away, hassled to reduce my script until it got to the point I couldn't carry out the manual aspect of the job I was in due to pain. Once they had me on the dole they felt they could take liberties, the psych even told me that losing my job was a good thing ?! So glad I'm back in the care of my GP & working again.
I dread to think where I would now be without OST maintenance.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

John Divney

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2017, 04:32:04 PM »
Me too OP8S, I am only ever doing okay when on a script and left alone. Been on one since 1992, on and off, and all the times i have reduced or detoxed or jibbed it I have got myself in a whole world of shit. The trouble is though that the recovery lot, CGL, seem incapable of accepting that and see my choice as second class and inferior to what they believe in...full recovery. Lifeline used to believe in it but have now stopped believing after having some sort of epiphany on a donkey on the road to Damascus. Addaction just do things for money and would have us all in sensory deprivation tanks if they were paid to do it and Turning Point don't know what they believe in any more...no idea where they stand. At least CGL are honest about it and don't pretend to be experts in MMT, the rest of them can go to hell.