Author Topic: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped  (Read 9871 times)

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2017, 06:54:25 PM »
I recall  years ago phoning smoking cessation service they were happy to help me but I'd to go to some groups, I work, not a chance was I going to some group, I've no time for that.

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2017, 09:36:00 AM »
Me too OP8S, I am only ever doing okay when on a script and left alone. Been on one since 1992, on and off, and all the times i have reduced or detoxed or jibbed it I have got myself in a whole world of shit. The trouble is though that the recovery lot, CGL, seem incapable of accepting that and see my choice as second class and inferior to what they believe in...full recovery. Lifeline used to believe in it but have now stopped believing after having some sort of epiphany on a donkey on the road to Damascus. Addaction just do things for money and would have us all in sensory deprivation tanks if they were paid to do it and Turning Point don't know what they believe in any more...no idea where they stand. At least CGL are honest about it and don't pretend to be experts in MMT, the rest of them can go to hell.

Snap!
I've reduced several times, always returned to using. Probably the most successful times were when I kicked heroin at home without any script, even that would only last 6 months tops. A new GP turned up & suggested maintenance on a decent dose. Soon I was being wheeled out in front of NHS suits as a example of a treatment success. I've always managed to hold onto jobs but since being stable had landed good work, had a mortgage, family, I was thriving. The suits couldn't deny that.
Couple of years later, Recovery arrives, contributes to me losing my job & I became public enemy number 1.
Best left alone, you'd think that clever people would recognise that...but Recovery ?
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2017, 02:42:31 PM »
They tried to implement something similar at my DSP, but it proved impossible to implement ad people with small children couldn't get sitters that regularly,people with disabilities had problems getting there,people on the dole had problems paying for transport to get three so often.

Bring up all these issues at your DSP,and get other patients to complain about the same type of things. I'm sure they'll have a change of heart!!

If they don't, speak to PHE, as they can't stop people's scripts for this kind of reason,it's spurious at best.

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2017, 05:13:22 PM »
You can't force people to attend courses so that they can be prescribed a medication that people in other areas may get without having to attend the same course. Smokers don't have to attend any courses to get champix or patches, the increasing amount of overweight people don't have to attend healthy eating classes, weight watchers & reduce their calorie intake so that they have access to the many medications prescribed for health conditions that are associated with being overweight.
It's absolute bollocks, the only course that I've ever attended was a quick talk on administering Nalaxone before we were given the kits & I could see the point in that, I may of saved a couple of people from overdose since. It's not hard, the course could of been explained in 20 minutes if it wasn't for one lad who kept asking if it wouldn't be faster to give it I/V. Silly bugger, in a situation like that who wants to be frigging about looking for a vein when you can bang it into someones thigh without even taking their keks off!
I think everyone in treatment should at least have access to Nalaxone even if they're not injecting. Last time I used it a friend came along after just having a dig ( unknown to me ), he'd been up all night was stinking of booze, had taken God knows what else, mumbled something then promptly passed out, stopped breathing. I then got accused of " ruining his hit " when he came round, not so much as a thank you. Not that I was caring I'm not having anyone od in my house.
At that time I had been stable for a few years, wasn't injecting & didn't really think I needed Nalaxone in the house, was extremely glad I had some though. If you mix with opiate users you never know the day you might need it due to situations outwith your control.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

Scallywag

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2017, 07:48:49 PM »
I agree with your points OP8 but the other activities aren't created from an illegal activity so aren't as stigmatising. I have heard many people saying methadone doesn't work because people are on it for years... hence it doesn't work. I then point out it depends on your definition of 'work'. If it helps someone not use gear or control their use so they don't revert to crime, chaotic lifestyles, then i think it does work. They see things as cures rather than treatment in the broader sense. E-cigs are seen as better than smoking tobacco but people can use them for years... don't they work then?

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2017, 11:30:55 PM »
Well smoking cessation often requires attendance at groups, also overweight people get sent to dieticians, weight management and so on. The difference though is rather huge, cigs are found easy, can buy own patches, cream cakes, lose weight through sensible eating etc.
Losing a Methadone prescription is pretty catastrophic in comparison.

Some members of the general public understand Methadone does work Scallywag if it's explained properly, then others will never get it ever , it's wrong/bad/encourages using etc, you know the rest. 

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2017, 01:22:53 PM »
The most common misconception is that it gets users high, or provides them with " their fix " paid for by the NHS, while others have to go out & buy a couple of bottles of wine, vodka or whatever.
It doesn't get you high if you're taking it as prescribed & if you're on a halfway decent dose prevents other opiates from having the desired effect. So people who are prescribed meth but still top up on a daily basis can't be on a high enough dose, for some this is through choice but I'd guess that the majority who are jumping through all the hoops recovery has placed in their way would rather be on a dose which they are comfortable on without having to fund a habit.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2017, 02:25:18 PM »
The most common misconception is that it gets users high, or provides them with " their fix " paid for by the NHS, while others have to go out & buy a couple of bottles of wine, vodka or whatever.
It doesn't get you high if you're taking it as prescribed & if you're on a halfway decent dose prevents other opiates from having the desired effect. So people who are prescribed meth but still top up on a daily basis can't be on a high enough dose, for some this is through choice but I'd guess that the majority who are jumping through all the hoops recovery has placed in their way would rather be on a dose which they are comfortable on without having to fund a habit.
media again - 'high on Methadone' yeah right, not just maintained and as high/low as everyone else.

sapphire

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2017, 04:04:45 PM »
So many people at my DSP voiced valid concerns about why they could not attend these groups on such a regular basis (work/college/disability/mobility issuess/cost of transport as they were on benefits/not being able to get a sitter that often (or afford it) if they had pre-school age kids and many other things), that the management had to rethink it, and in tje end the whole thing got scrapped.

I would encourage other people to band together with other people at your DSP and all give your different reasons as to why attending these groups is logistically impossible.

To say people cannot have their script when (for example) they cannot afford the transport to the DSP and are too immobile to walk, or they cannot get/afford to pay a babysitter is just plain ridiculous.

What is even the point of these groups? I have yet to meet a DSP patient who actually got anything positive out of them.

They descend into anarchy with people shouting, arguing, the most popular topic is old drug 'war stories' which is of no help to those of us who are actually in recovery.

That's even before people at these groups who aren't in recovery try to sell you heroin/crack/benzos etc or you get people passing telephone numbers telling you to ri g them when you want to score!

The only time I'm exposed to this behaviour is at my DSP, it should be a safe place, but it's the only place I go where sometimes my recovery can be a struggle (especially if you're having a bad day or something stressful/hurtful has happened to you). You should not have to run the gauntlet like this at a place of medical treatment.

seven

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2017, 04:56:38 PM »
drugs are demonised and it doesnt help when people use the term ....get clean.....im not dirty ......and using a drug does not stop you working

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2017, 11:04:09 AM »
and if you're using drugs because you like to why do you need to recover ? Choosing to use a substance whatever it may be isn't an illness it's human behaviour.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

seven

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2017, 01:12:46 PM »
Absolutely. If society wants drug users to reintegrate then it has to accept their pasts. Many but not all have criminal convictions that can limit their chances of finding work, whilst others just for using drugs can face similar discrimination.
Sadly, drug use is demonised and is useful in creating 'an enemy' to society, so to forgive and reduce the discrimination conflicts with that view. One client i worked with said "I've got over 50 reasons why i can't get a job, so if i get sanctioned for not getting one, there's only crime i can turn to"

Using Methadone is no reason to not work ...as for "reintegrate" into society.....ive worked all my life...we need to get away from this idea a drug user is "a victim" or trying to "get clean" most of us are normal people whos drug of choice is not the drug alcohol

simon

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2017, 05:42:03 PM »
Using Methadone is no reason to not work ...as for "reintegrate" into society.....ive worked all my life...we need to get away from this idea a drug user is "a victim" or trying to "get clean" most of us are normal people whos drug of choice is not the drug alcohol
I strongly believe people should work if they are able, we have written off far too many to live in social isolation. We need people working, it's good for mental health problems, they earn money, can go on holidays and feel better. Working is good for people with kids who can then take them places, enjoy life and lead by example.
Too many places are deprived and people die young, they can help themselves.

OP8S

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2017, 05:33:28 PM »
Pure coincidence but today I was waiting for my bus, the stop is just across the road from where colleagues are allowed to smoke tobacco to maintain their nicotine habit. They need topping up at least 3-4 times a day, that's 45 mins minimum by the time they put down what they're doing, have a smoke & get back to work. I could easily maintain an heroin habit in that time. When I was using during the day at work, I might of kept myself functioning with 3-4 toots of the foil, nobody ever noticed, I wasn't rolling back into work unfit for work. I was doing exactly the same as the tobacco smokers observed today, maintaining my habit.
I've always worked & I've always used various substances at work, as long as people are capable of managing their drug use they shouldn't be discriminated against.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: Don't attend courses get prescription stopped
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2017, 04:59:53 PM »
For me, the negatives of this are that you should never have the threat of losing your script, such a crucial thing that your whole life hangs on, for not wanting/needing to attend a group.

I don't know what groups are like in other areas, but the ones I have attended in various parts of the country are either full of people telling war stories and glorifying drug use, or swapping notes on the best places to score.

Either that or you have 1 or 2 particularly vocal individuals who completely monopolize the group and no one else can get an edge in.

Frankly, for people who've been in treatment for decades, these groups are just repeating stuff we've heard a billion times before,hell we could run the damn class (and probably a lot better).

But to try to withhold a life saving medication on the basis of group attendance is BS IMO. It might be different for people in the first 6 months of treatment, but after that, there is absolutely no way groups should be mandatory and scripts withheld on the basis of attendance.