Author Topic: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.  (Read 5418 times)

simon

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Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« on: February 28, 2017, 10:52:25 AM »
http://www.addaction.org.uk/conferences/conference-events
I've just seen this advertised, no idea if anyone can get funding or not to attend.

John Divney

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2017, 02:45:32 PM »
I believe that Addaction and Lifeline, Turning Point to a lesser extent, are more than culpable for the current state of drug treatment, with DRDs and Hep C on the increase, as well as a dumbing down over the last few years of decent MMT and HR delivery. They have undercut the NHS, which is easy to do, wherever a LA have decided to recommission drug treatment to save a few quid and add the savings to their dog shit wardens or whatever. Addaction employ staff to do just this, to write and pursue bids for open tenders.They have been complicit in lowering wages for experienced staff, employing inexperienced recovery staff in their place as the outgoing experienced HR staff refuse to bow to the new agenda, and relegating HR principles in drug treatment behind their apparent new belief in full recovery for all. Standards of delivery have been lowered and NICE guidelines and The Orange Book generally ignored or at best twisted to suit the recovery agenda. It is a typical Tory free market, a drive to the bottom, with no one seemingly in charge whether in Government or within the mighty halls of PHE. It is reminiscent of the railways, utilities like Gas and electric, schools, banks and insurance companies...NHS next! It wouldn't surprise me to see drug treatment choices offered on sites like Go Compare or USwitch. They all have blood on their hands in pursuit of filthy lucre.

simon

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2017, 03:32:10 PM »
I did expect interesting replies. Interesting what you see on that Twitter thing. CGL advise on how many Naloxone kits they've given out - that's really positive but should people need other things, such as MMT first or as well as.

OP8S

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 04:53:11 PM »
We're mere commodities to the likes of Addaction, CGL etc. , they're businesses & the first rule of business is to make a profit.

We Die, They lie. As long as they make profit they couldn't give a shit.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

simon

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 05:35:50 PM »
We're mere commodities to the likes of Addaction, CGL etc. , they're businesses & the first rule of business is to make a profit.

We Die, They lie. As long as they make profit they couldn't give a shit.
your DSP sponsor a place for you?  ;D

John Divney

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2017, 05:40:45 PM »
Simon, your Naloxone view is interesting. Are more Naloxone kits being used because more are ODing because they are not in treatment and therefore leading a more unstable life, using more chaotically, taking more risks, being watched over by no one in particular. Don't get me wrong, I think if you are in treatment you should have a kit, even if you just use a syringe exchange or just drugs....It should be a part of all addicts kit, like that nice pot box you've had for years, or that Tibetan bag of bits and pieces when you have a tidy hit. But as prisoners leaving nick get given a naloxone kit because they are a risk, are users discharged from treatment given one, discharged drug free or not? Do you have to ask for one and then go on a course, which denotes stability, are they reaching the real crazy injectors? The crack bingers, the real messy guys? The ones I used to know wouldn't go near a drug service anyway. I met the naloxone bus people from Chicago once and their attitude was that everyone should have one, everyone...drug user or not, families, non-using friends. Just like we all have some paracetamol. One day it might save a life, you cant kill anyone with it, you don't need a special course either. Crazy Yanks!

Think I might pop in to CGL Friday and see if I can get a kit, how many hoops will there be I wonder? Shouldn't be any in my view.

OP8S

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2017, 05:53:02 PM »
Think I read that Liverpool had decided against distributing them, silly when they cost 15 a pop approx & can literally save lives. Everyone who is scripted should have them in my opinion.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

simon

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2017, 07:03:54 PM »
Simon, your Naloxone view is interesting. Are more Naloxone kits being used because more are ODing because they are not in treatment and therefore leading a more unstable life, using more chaotically, taking more risks, being watched over by no one in particular. Don't get me wrong, I think if you are in treatment you should have a kit, even if you just use a syringe exchange or just drugs....It should be a part of all addicts kit, like that nice pot box you've had for years, or that Tibetan bag of bits and pieces when you have a tidy hit. But as prisoners leaving nick get given a naloxone kit because they are a risk, are users discharged from treatment given one, discharged drug free or not? Do you have to ask for one and then go on a course, which denotes stability, are they reaching the real crazy injectors? The crack bingers, the real messy guys? The ones I used to know wouldn't go near a drug service anyway. I met the naloxone bus people from Chicago once and their attitude was that everyone should have one, everyone...drug user or not, families, non-using friends. Just like we all have some paracetamol. One day it might save a life, you cant kill anyone with it, you don't need a special course either. Crazy Yanks!

Think I might pop in to CGL Friday and see if I can get a kit, how many hoops will there be I wonder? Shouldn't be any in my view.
I think my view is that people are protected from therapeutic doses of Methadone and using on top will taper off, heroin will be less rewarding as more methadone sits on the receptors people say 'gear is shit'.
Yes everyone should have Naloxone but they also should have the choice to use by being on higher doses, should be a choice not a necessity.
Our central team I think show people a video on how to use Naloxone, then off you go.

OP8S

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2017, 07:11:38 PM »
Yes higher doses of meth prevent overdose due to the tolerance when I was over  120ml, the penny finally dropped that no matter how much heroin I used I wasn't going to get the high I was looking for so I stopped handing my cash over for generally poor quality, light deals.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

simon

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2017, 07:23:44 PM »
Yes higher doses of meth prevent overdose due to the tolerance when I was over  120ml, the penny finally dropped that no matter how much heroin I used I wasn't going to get the high I was looking for so I stopped handing my cash over for generally poor quality, light deals.
So we lower doses, people have less tolerance, use again because they don't feel good, they die, we wonder why? We arrange a conference because we haven't a clue why.

OP8S

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2017, 05:35:37 PM »
So we lower doses, people have less tolerance, use again because they don't feel good, they die, we wonder why? We arrange a conference because we haven't a clue why.

Got to keep the majority of patients on low doses & using for Recovery to be profitable these day. 
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

simon

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2017, 07:24:06 PM »
Got to keep the majority of patients on low doses & using for Recovery to be profitable these day.
Health though?

OP8S

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2017, 12:54:58 PM »
Health though?

Not part of the contract,. They deal in abstinence , reduction & recovery
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell

sapphire

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2017, 03:33:51 PM »
John, I agree with you completely, services such as Addaction, CGL, Turning Point etc ARE completely culpable for the terrible state of affairs in UK drug treatment.

They are letting people die left right and centre and no one seems to give a damn.

The conference is going on about mortality rates and giving out Naloxone kits, perhaps if they medicated their patients optimally then their patients wouldn't need to use on top of their scripts and as such wouldn't be in such danger of OD.

The whole thing is just a smokescreen to detract from what the real problem is, namely that they're trying to make patients survive on the tiniest dose possible.

Why, oh why are people not seeing what is going on? Surely the commissioners and the government are not that stupid or naive.

If they're not, the only conclusion one can come to is that they really do not give a shut.

They might have to give a shut soon, as heroin seems to be making a little bit of a comeback. Kids who were previously using legal highs, plenty of them have migrated over to the harder drugs crack and heroin, so we could be in for a mini epidemic, and as a lot of these kids are white middle class, I'm sure that will make the government sit up and take notice! Racist dicks.

OP8S

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Re: Addaction conference on drug related deaths.
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2017, 11:29:03 AM »
I read that spice users are using heroin to prevent withdrawals from spice, but even heroin doesn't compete with whatever spice is. Would spice users give it up if they could get affordable, legal pot or has the cat been let out of the bag now giving us a lot of spice users who will continue to want spice rather than anything else ?
The NPS act hasn't been very effective has it, prohibition never is though. You'd think that policy makers might of realised that by now, it's not complicated, quite the opposite very fuckin obvious.
" The problem with the world is that the fanatics are so sure of themselves while the wiser people acknowledge doubts "      Bertrand Russell